We have all been there. You’ve got a problem with your car or your internet or your flight, so you call customer service. And then you get routed, rerouted, and then re-rerouted – for hours. The call gets dropped, and after a few minutes of screaming into the void, you start the whole thing all over again.

Or you get a virtual assistant that, no matter how many times you yell “operator!”, will not connect you to a real person. And then slowly, your will to fight starts to dissolve.

After enduring his own customer service ordeal, reporter Chris Colin started to wonder if these headaches and frustrations of customer care are by design.

In a recent article for The Atlantic, Chris says, a lot of times they are.

Roman speaks with Chris about those obstacles baked into customer service, and some strategies for surviving the worst aspects of modern day customer care. {listen}